If Wlad and Vitali were Americans..

my state of awareness would have suffered , being that this thread wouldn't have existed.

its obvious they would be lifted into the heavens and announced as the greatest boxers in the world

blueyedsamurai wrote:its obvious they would be lifted into the heavens and announced as the greatest boxers in the world

fact

If Cus D'amato would have lived another 10-15 years , this conversation wouldn't have taken place. Names like Klitcshko ,Valuev , Lewis , wouldn't ring a bell to the majority of people , except hardcore fans. There , i said it !

Wlad is the GSP of heavyweight boxing. What is the meaning of this type of thread.

balkan_soul wrote:If Cus D'amato would have lived another 10-15 years , this conversation wouldn't have taken place. Names like Klitcshko ,Valuev , Lewis , wouldn't ring a bell to the majority of people , except hardcore fans. There , i said it !

Vitali Klitschko is all wrong for Mike Tyson. In fact I cant even think of a worse matchup for Mike in all of history. He is EVERYTHING that Mike had trouble with.

Lewis is a tough a matchup as well. When they were like 17 they use to bust eachother up in sparring at the catskills.

I agree, being an American is a must if you want to be enormously popular and mainstream in boxing. Which is actually really sad, because I (and I believe most of you) couldn't care less about the nationality of a fighter.

Hopefully it is changing, Manny Pac is by far the most popular fighter here and he isnt american(obv)

Stillwill you obviously don't know Mike Tyson , and have no idea about the potential he had in him. Even mentioning Tyson in the same phrase with Vitali doesn't do you justice. Even at 22 , in his reached prime (which is barely 50-60% of his real potential) he would have still dispatched guys like Vitali , Lewis , etc with ease. Just drop this subject i don't wanna get serious about this. Just keep your avatar and signature , support your guy, but don't bring Tyson into this.

Typical Tyson noob.

Any Vitali <40yrs old, and any Lennox, are stylistics nightmares for Tyson. The man was a typical bully with no heart, who quit mentally when a fight didn't go his way.

Thing is, he had enormous skill and ferocious power, so it wasn't often that a fight DIDN'T go his way... but on the six occasions it didn't, he quit. Face facts - Vitali is too durable, too rangy, and Lewis/Tyson would have gone down the way it did in 2002 any time after 1991. And don't bring up "prime Tyson" - Lewis wasn't a pro in the 80s, it couldn't have happened. When it COULD happen, Tyson paid millions to avoid Lewis in 1995.

You guys don't know much about boxing , i can see that. When you debate things like Tyson's potential and even his prime , and talk about guys like Vitali , Lewis , i'm not even gonna reply to you. Sorry , there's no point ! Watch more of his fights , his lifestyle pre 1990 , watch some footage with him and Cus , watch Ali talk about Tyson , saying he fears him and wouldn't wanna fight him when he was young . Then come debate me , until then i won't reply to these silly posts.

Tyson is clearly GOAT. He beat Razor Ruddock twice and didn't wilt ONCE from 1986-1989.

Any failures on his part to show a champion's heart and durability from 1989-2005, are basically anomalies. He'd still murder Lennox Lewis and Vitali Klitschko....

Uh, yeah

I must say i am saddened by the ignorance i witness here. Again , i have to laugh at you considering yourself a knowledgeable fan. Tyson is the youngest champion in the history of boxing at age 20 , when he was holding the WBC , WBA and IBF titles. Age 20 ? Living with one of the greatest boxing living encyclopedia in his house like a son ? What does that say about a fighters potential ?
Questioning his heart and determination after he served three years in prison ? And came back to win his belt in the first fight ? How ignorant can you be ? Some athletes retire from a sport after layoffs of a 1 year. 3 fucking years in prison with no training. I'm disgusted by people like you . Let's just forget that and shit on Tyson . Lets talk about legendary EXCITING FIGHTERS LIKE VITALI AND WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO , WHO DOMINATE THEIR FIGHTS WITH TECHNIQUE AND NOT SIZE OR REACH . You guys are boxing fans ? How can one pretend to know shit about boxing , after you say things like HAYE DIDN't come to fight. How does not one come to fight in a boxing match ? Boxers like Pernell , Roche were all shit fighters who didn't come to fight. HAYE should have obviously jumped on a 2 meters guy and knock him out just like that . I dislike fighters like Schilt who are obviously low skilled , but Wlad is not low skilled . He has medium high skills to back that 2 meter frame. I can count the clear jabs he touched Haye with one hand FFS . Every time Haye was going for power punches you could see and feel that Wlad was in real danger. I've nothing more to say to you people , clearly there aren't many boxing fans on this forum , not to mention knowledgeable ones. I will have to get my fix on sherdog boxing section tonight , because here i'm just getting dissapointed.

balkan_soul wrote:I must say i am saddened by the ignorance i witness here. Again , i have to laugh at you considering yourself a knowledgeable fan. Tyson is the youngest champion in the history of boxing at age 20 , when he was holding the WBC , WBA and IBF titles. Age 20 ? Living with one of the greatest boxing living encyclopedia in his house like a son ? What does that say about a fighters potential ?
Questioning his heart and determination after he served three years in prison ? And came back to win his belt in the first fight ? How ignorant can you be ? Some athletes retire from a sport after layoffs of a 1 year. 3 fucking years in prison with no training. I'm disgusted by people like you . Let's just forget that and shit on Tyson . Lets talk about legendary EXCITING FIGHTERS LIKE VITALI AND WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO , WHO DOMINATE THEIR FIGHTS WITH TECHNIQUE AND NOT SIZE OR REACH . You guys are boxing fans ? How can one pretend to know shit about boxing , after you say things like HAYE DIDN't come to fight. How does not one come to fight in a boxing match ? Boxers like Pernell , Roche were all shit fighters who didn't come to fight. HAYE should have obviously jumped on a 2 meters guy and knock him out just like that . I dislike fighters like Schilt who are obviously low skilled , but Wlad is not low skilled . He has medium high skills to back that 2 meter frame. I can count the clear jabs he touched Haye with one hand FFS . Every time Haye was going for power punches you could see and feel that Wlad was in real danger. I've nothing more to say to you people , clearly there aren't many boxing fans on this forum , not to mention knowledgeable ones. I will have to get my fix on sherdog boxing section tonight , because here i'm just getting dissapointed.

Lighten up mate. No one is shitting on Tyson; I'm just shitting on the insane belief many people have that Tyson was even a top 10 greatest ever heavyweight. He isn't.

He had ENORMOUS potential, talent, power, skill... but he managed to fuck it up. Don't take your frustration at that out on me, man... I'm a fan. Obviously I'd prefer if there was a Tyson in this day and age, but sadly there isn't, and the Klitschko's are the best we have.

Talking POTENTIAL with Tyson is fine, as is talking about his epic 1986-1990 title reign (basically undisputed champ for at least three years, even after the ridiculous decision was made to strip that status when WBO awarded their belt to Damiani). He had potential, and an epic title reign. He was exciting, and one of my favourite heavyweights to watch. Tyson up to 1990 was amazing, and I wish I was old enough to see it first hand, not just the Tyson of the early noughties. In the 80s he was frightening. But after that point, he wasn't there, and his legacy/resume is not on par with Lewis, let alone Louis, Ali, Dempsey and the like. It just isn't.

Listen Balkan Mike was the most explosive HW I have seen in my life and obviously had physical gifts like any other, but man its been 15 years! Jesus what is wrong with me being a fan of a current HW today? I can be fans of both.


Tyson has seriously been my favorite fighter since I was like 9 years old so don't pull that shit with me. Yes he was incredible but he also lacked the mental fortitude and discipline to last as champion. Its sad but it is the truth.


He also had a very big problem with big, skilled men (Douglas/Lewis) and guys who refused to be bullied. Vitali fits the bill, who knows what would happen and honestly WHO GIVES A SHIT they are from different eras, we can appreciate them both.

I never argued his resume is the best out there. Far from it. But you gotta wonder , what could he have achieved had D'amato lived another 10 years . That speed , that power , that dedication , that determination , that ferociousness ? D'Amato died before he ever won a belt. And he still had an amazing 5 years , all by himself , without the master , mentor , guiding him. That's where this discussion started in the first place ! About D'Amato , and his passing , leaving Tyson , a 19 years old kid , alone , with huge ammounts of money and nobody who really cared about him.

StillWill wrote:

I'm faster then that!!!






Kidding... I wish

tyson is the most exciting fighter ever, but not goat, and he would get beat by klitchko