KICKBOXING / MUAY THAI ORGANIZATIONS IN THE UNITED STATES

The point of this thread is to create discussion about American Kickboxing and Muay Thai sanctioning organizations; i.e. What they are currently doing and how they can improve and continue to be relevant in a world where MMA is slowly overshadowing traditional striking martial arts.

Currently there are only a few organizations that are still operational, I wont get into any of the lesser orgs or smaller independent promoters, but rather what I call "The Big Three"...

- The USMTA (United States Muay Thai Association)
- The IKF (International Kickboxing Federation)
- The TBA (Thai Boxing Association of the United States)

I compete for the USMTA, they hold 30+ events annually for ammy and pros nation-wide, along with their "North American Amateur Championship Tournament" (Which is set to be held in about two weeks in Davis, OK)

The USMTA is in dire need of a revamping... Their staff is trying their hardest to keep up, but it seems like their resources are not what they would hope. A few of the USMTA staff including my Arjarn, are responsible for the publication of "Muay Thaimes Magazine". It's a really cool US view of the inner workings of the sport as well as updates on events.

All in all, I think the USMTA will be here for a long, long time. That being said, they really need to work out the kinks.

(for more info check out http://www.muaythaimes.com/ , http://www.usmta.com/ , http://muaythaichampionships.com/ )


The IKF is a completly different story. They pretty much only hold events in California and most are semi-contact "point matches"
Now there are some legit fighters to come out of the IKF ranks, but not many. The IFK is mostly a european based org, focusing on Ireland and the UK more often than not. It seems to me that here in the States, the IKF is a way for practitioners of TKD, Karate, etc to get involved in the world of kickboxing / muay thai without getting tested the way you would in the USMTA or the TBA.

(for more info on the IKF check out - http://www.ikfkickboxing.com/ )



Last is the TBA, a strong organization with some definate staying power. They hold their championships in Des Moines, Iowa every year; an event that is known by most promoters as "The TBA's" They produce a good amount of events annually and will be here for a long time to come.

( http://thaiboxing.com/ )






We need to get US Kickboxing / Muay Thai back on the map...

Big ups for creating this kind of exposure. Chuck Norris needs to bring back the WCL and K-1 USA needs to come back.

The last time I heard of K-1 USA was back in 2006.

This was a time when winners of the IKF nationals were promptly asked to compete in the K-1 USA events.... this is no longer true.


lol @ WCL... man, it was a good idea that was made sour by goofy management and marketing

Scorpion_Kid wrote:The last time I heard of K-1 USA was back in 2006.

This was a time when winners of the IKF nationals were promptly asked to compete in the K-1 USA events.... this is no longer true.


lol @ WCL... man, it was a good idea that was made sour by goofy management and marketing

WCL was hilarious, but it gave Kickboxers for a time a decent job lol. K-1 USA actually had solid events, like the Battle at the Bellagio series. I know I name drop my mentor / coach Michael McDonald all the time, but he was a 2x K-1 USA champ.

MICHAEL MCDONALD IS YOUR COACH?????


Dude is sick!!!!!
He holds the most wins of any participant in K-1 USA

K-1 USA 2001
Michael McDonald defeated Jean Claude Leuyer by DEC-3
Michael McDonald defeated Jeff Roufus by DEC-3

K-1 USA 2002
Michael McDonald defeated Giuseppe DeNatale by DEC-3
Michael McDonald defeated Jeff Ford by TKO-2
Michael McDonald defeated Rick Roufus by TKO-3

K-1 Las Vegas 2002
Michael McDonald defeated Ricardo Duenas by TKO-1
Michael McDonald defeated Tony Gregory by DEC-3
Michael McDonald defeated Pavel Majer by TKO-2


K-1 Las Vegas 2003
Michael McDonald defeated Jefferson Silva by TKO-2
Michael McDonald defeated George Randolph by KO-1
Remy Bonjasky defeated Michael McDonald by DEC-4


K-1 USA 2004
Michael McDonald defeated Kelly Leo by KO-1
Michael McDonald defeated Dewey Cooper by DEC-3
Michael McDonald defeated Marvin Eastman TKO-2



He was the champion in 2002 and 2004 and is a legend in the sport... fuck you I'm jealous

WHERE DO YOU TRAIN?

Yup that's Coach Sniper. I train at a gym in Vancouver BC Canada, called New Era Athletics. His knowledge of the stand up game is just incredible, I'd honestly say he had the fastest hands in all of K-1 P4P. Him and Masato.

If any of you guys lived in Vancouver, you would have been more then welcome to try a weeks worth of free classes.

Scorpion_Kid wrote:Dude is sick!!!!!
He holds the most wins of any participant in K-1 USA

He was the champion in 2002 and 2004 and is a legend in the sport... fuck you I'm jealous

He also KTFO of one of my personal favorite (but one of Coach's rivals) K-1 Kickboxers, Mirko Cro Cop. No one gave Michael a chance, but he did it.

Man if I'm ever in Vancouver you've got to get me in there!

Hell me and the Misses were planning on taking a vacation next April.... How's the weather there in that time of year?

Damn son... Damn

Scorpion_Kid wrote:Man if I'm ever in Vancouver you've got to get me in there!

Hell me and the Misses were planning on taking a vacation next April.... How's the weather there in that time of year?

Damn son... Damn

Hmmm...The weather is decent, but from October to March is just pisses rain. That's our fall, winter, and early spring. We are like one of the few places in Canada where it's not very cold nor does it snow a lot or at all. But ya it's really nice up here, I'll show you around.

Sounds good, I'll talk with my wife about it when I get off work.

What's the drop-in rate for a guy like me to just come and train for like 2 weeks?

Scorpion_Kid wrote:Sounds good, I'll talk with my wife about it when I get off work.

What's the drop-in rate for a guy like me to just come and train for like 2 weeks?

A week of classes is free, but drop in is like $20 after that. I'll talk to my coach and maybe you guys could work out a deal. For Michael though, he is such a busy guy. He is always in and out, he actually spends most of his time in Toronto at Revolution MMA. He works with Gary Goodridge and Carlos Newton on their striking.

Are any of these org's televising shows?

What's your opinion on ISKA?

No, unfortunately there is a small market and no outside funding. However I know that there are many DVDs produced by the IKF, USMTA, and TBA alike.

The ISKA is a great example of what can be achieved with proper marketing and funding. The only reason I didn't list them is because they are a world wide organization and now have a rumored partnership with Strikeforce.

Thanks for the heads up. I try to keep up with Schiavello & he has a lot of good things to say about ISKA... but he might be getting paid from them too, so take it for what it is. But still, a deal with SF is HUGE, especially if it means some TV time.

Fans are hungry for a good K-1 style org here.

I don't think it's going to mean TV time just yet, (other than the ISKA Open on ESPN 2) but it surely means that they will have an influx of funds.

Hooligan wrote:Fans are hungry for a good K-1 style org here.

Honestly as much as I love the beautiful art of stand up, there isn't many who truly appreciate it. It surprises me there isn't a lot of interested on just pure stand up in North America, because there's tons of people that complain that MMA can be boring because of ground work and wrestling. They complain yet, they don't realize they can just watch kickboxing and there are tons of options for them. My guess is the reason they don't appreciate pure stand up, because pure stand up isn't "train wreck" style exchanges like commonly seen in MMA. They like to see people recklessly swing for the fences. They don't appreciate the foot work, the head movement, the true science.

rcv604 wrote:

Hooligan wrote:Fans are hungry for a good K-1 style org here.

Honestly as much as I love the beautiful art of stand up, there isn't many who truly appreciate it. It surprises me there isn't a lot of interested on just pure stand up in North America, because there's tons of people that complain that MMA can be boring because of ground work and wrestling. They complain yet, they don't realize they can just watch kickboxing and there are tons of options for them. My guess is the reason they don't appreciate pure stand up, because pure stand up isn't "train wreck" style exchanges like commonly seen in MMA. They like to see people recklessly swing for the fences. They don't appreciate the foot work, the head movement, the true science.

You've hit the nail on the head, although I think it has to do with the presentation as well.


In North American MMA, we're used to seeing five things-

1: Extreme marketing hype- However slanted a promoters presentation may be, it still sells.

2: "MMA Shorts" (aka the swim trunks in my closet) - For some reason I honestly think that North Americans have a problem with the attire displayed in Muay Thai and K-1. (fuck kickboxing pants) I mean sure you've got some guys that prefer the Vale Tudo style trunks, but for the most part you see the same shit. No one gives a fuck about tradition. (War Terry Etim, sucks he got injured)

3: The Cage - As retarded it would be to have muay thai bouts in a cage, I really think some people would like it. A lot of the older fans can't stand the cage, but fuck, if it sells then it sells. I think a lot of the older Boxing crowd might have not talked so much shit about MMA if if would have stayed in the ring. To them, when they see the octogon all they can think about is "CAGE MATCH" which is always hokey as fuck in Professional Wrestling.

4: The 4oz Glove - I've heard way too many asshole say "Man, kickboxing and Muay Thai is for pussies, that's why they use those big-ass gloves!" Complete bullshit...
There is no reason to have fingerless gloves in a stand-up match... no fucking reason. And as far as the weight of the glove, that all depends on the sanctioning body... (everything is negotiable)

5: No Standing 8 Count- Let's face it... MMA's KO rules allow way too many fights to be stopped early... on the other hand, it probally has protected a lot of guys from unnecessary punishment. Some people like how a fight can end so quickly, others (like me) enjoy seeing how much heart a fighter has. If he can collect himself and get back in there... That's how real champions are made.



Maybe some rich guy willing to take a chance will actually give a shit and try to build a real Muay Thai / Kickboxing promotion. Until then... I guess we're in for more of the same.

Scorpion_Kid wrote:

rcv604 wrote:

Hooligan wrote:Fans are hungry for a good K-1 style org here.

Honestly as much as I love the beautiful art of stand up, there isn't many who truly appreciate it. It surprises me there isn't a lot of interested on just pure stand up in North America, because there's tons of people that complain that MMA can be boring because of ground work and wrestling. They complain yet, they don't realize they can just watch kickboxing and there are tons of options for them. My guess is the reason they don't appreciate pure stand up, because pure stand up isn't "train wreck" style exchanges like commonly seen in MMA. They like to see people recklessly swing for the fences. They don't appreciate the foot work, the head movement, the true science.

You've hit the nail on the head, although I think it has to do with the presentation as well.


In North American MMA, we're used to seeing five things-

1: Extreme marketing hype- However slanted a promoters presentation may be, it still sells.

2: "MMA Shorts" (aka the swim trunks in my closet) - For some reason I honestly think that North Americans have a problem with the attire displayed in Muay Thai and K-1. (fuck kickboxing pants) I mean sure you've got some guys that prefer the Vale Tudo style trunks, but for the most part you see the same shit. No one gives a fuck about tradition. (War Terry Etim, sucks he got injured)

3: The Cage - As retarded it would be to have muay thai bouts in a cage, I really think some people would like it. A lot of the newer fans can't stand the cage, but fuck, if it sells then it sells. I think a lot of the older Boxing crowd might have not talked so much shit about MMA if if would have stayed in the ring. To them, when they see the octogon all they can think about is "CAGE MATCH" which is always hokey as fuck in Professional Wrestling.

4: The 4oz Glove - I've heard way too many asshole say "Man, kickboxing and Muay Thai is for pussies, that's why they use those big-ass gloves!" Complete bullshit...
There is no reason to have fingerless gloves in a stand-up match... no fucking reason. And as far as the weight of the glove, that all depends on the sanctioning body... (everything is negotiable)

5: No Standing 8 Count- Let's face it... MMA's KO rules allow way too many fights to be stopped early... on the other hand, it probally has protected a lot of guys from unnecessary punishment. Some people like how a fight can end so quickly, others (like me) enjoy seeing how much heart a fighter has. If he can collect himself and get back in there... That's how real champions are made.



Maybe some rich guy willing to take a chance will actually give a shit and try to build a real Muay Thai / Kickboxing promotion. Until then... I guess we're in for more of the same.

1. Extreme marketing hype - Ya the sport in North America needs that. It can be like K-1 in Japan, but of course tailored for the American audience.

2. Shorts - Me personally I LOVE THAI SHORTS. I think they are so cool, the designs, and material. Like Ned Flanders said when you wear them it feels like your wearing "nothing at all" lol. And ya fuck Kickboxing pants, those are so stupid. I don't see a problem with kickboxers rocking board shorts. Overeem does it in K-1. It's all about comfort. For me it's either Thai Shorts or Vale Tudo shorts.

3. Cage - Personally I think cages for Kickboxing matches are stupid. Michael actually fought in a Kickboxing match back in 06' in England versus James Mcsweeney (he was in TUF: Heavyweights) in a fucking gage...That shit is stupid, because the cage honestly makes no different when Kickboxing. You can't hold a dude in the fence in KB. It's just a novelty if it was used in a KB match, plus it is bigger there's more space for the fighter to "run" around. The ring is better because it forces fighters to engage and it's a much smaller space then a cage.

4 4oz gloves - Ya there is no point for fingerless gloves, it is complete bullshit. If you are hit properly, it's going to fucking hurt either way lol. Ya and it does depend on who's sanctioning the fight, but normally for KB it's either 14oz or 16oz. K-1 GP they use 12oz and the MAX they use 10oz. I think standard Muay Thai 16-14oz.

5. Standing 8 count - The 8 count is great, it's also necessary.

Yup we agree on pretty much everything lol.

Finally...some more kickboxing/MT talk!

How long have you guys been training? Do you train kickboxing, or traditional Muay Thai??

gsx-r wrote:Finally...some more kickboxing/MT talk!

How long have you guys been training? Do you train kickboxing, or traditional Muay Thai??

At the gym we call it "Black Sniper Kickboxing" after Michael McDonald. It's basically the best elements from Muay thai and Boxing.

rcv604 wrote:

gsx-r wrote:Finally...some more kickboxing/MT talk!

How long have you guys been training? Do you train kickboxing, or traditional Muay Thai??

At the gym we call it "Black Sniper Kickboxing" after Michael McDonald. It's basically the best elements from Muay thai and Boxing.

Do you train clinches, and knees and elbows??

gsx-r wrote:Do you train clinches, and knees and elbows??

Yes we do I love working in the clinch, it's a lot of fun. Throwing knees and elbows are awesome.

gsx-r wrote:Finally...some more kickboxing/MT talk!

How long have you guys been training? Do you train kickboxing, or traditional Muay Thai??

Hell yeah, I figured this would be the place to find like minded souls.


I've been training for a few years all together. Currently I train traditional muay thai at Final Round Combat Academy in Denison, TX under the tutelage of Kru Yai Troy Green. I fight for the USMTA, Collision Extreme Combat, and a few other local promoters.