Alexander Karelin : Greatest grappler ever?

The Super Hyper Creep wrote:
I'll just pull the Ed "Strangler" Lewis one !

great gama forever!!!!!!!

of course its impossible to really compare different grapplers from different disciplines, i mean, we should also probably include sumo wrestler taiho or some shit!?!

but really how can you deny that in anything submission oriented the victor will be the guy who trains submissions the most???

lets see if we had to do greatest grapplers of all time i suppose karelin would be at the top with kimura ... its hard to judge the great gama or frank gotch and even ed strangler lewis because there is little or no footage of these guys. same with rolls gracie too, who all the gracies generally consider the best.

hey catch guys, who would represent catch in the great grappler ever conversation?

kid wrote:lets see if we had to do greatest grapplers of all time i suppose karelin would be at the top with kimura ... its hard to judge the great gama or frank gotch and even ed strangler lewis because there is little or no footage of these guys. same with rolls gracie too, who all the gracies generally consider the best.

hey catch guys, who would represent catch in the great grappler ever conversation?

I would say...

G.O.A.T--Lou Thesz

based on what exactly? it sounds more personal preference than anything.

Are you the guy that I had this convo with before? When I listed top 10 best CACC wrestlers ever, and you said it wasnt valid because I havint seen half of them fight ?

Also, Lou Thesz is by far the greatest Catch Wrestler to ever live. He was world hw champ multiple times. Defeated the legendary Karl Gotch, and was also trained by some of the best Catch Wrestlers to ever live ( Lewis, Tragos,Santel). Amongst Pro-Wrestlers, and legitament "hookers" he is known as the most knowledgible and skilled wreslers to ever hit a mat.

Alot of journals, writers, and such put him at #1

Sakuraba = #1 Catch wrestler. I don't give much credit to older wrestlers, they wouldn't be able to hang with current grapplers.

Donowaman wrote:Sakuraba = #1 Catch wrestler. I don't give much credit to older wrestlers, they wouldn't be able to hang with current grapplers.

People werent made out of sheetrock back then. The same moves apply back then as they do now , tho the training methods and such have improved. Sakuraba was trained by the great Billy Robinson, who in turn was tought by Billy Rilley. I will say in modern times, he is probolly one of the most proven ones along with KSham,JOSHMETAL,Funaki,Suzuki, to name a few.

The Super Hyper Creep wrote:Are you the guy that I had this convo with before? When I listed top 10 best CACC wrestlers ever, and you said it wasnt valid because I havint seen half of them fight ?

Also, Lou Thesz is by far the greatest Catch Wrestler to ever live. He was world hw champ multiple times. Defeated the legendary Karl Gotch, and was also trained by some of the best Catch Wrestlers to ever live ( Lewis, Tragos,Santel). Amongst Pro-Wrestlers, and legitament "hookers" he is known as the most knowledgible and skilled wreslers to ever hit a mat.

Alot of journals, writers, and such put him at #1

haha yah, fuck man, i guess its a small world when your interests are so niche.

i mean seriously though why can't i say great gama and sight his supposed giant undefeated record. i dunno man it still feels real dubious to me to say someones the best when all you have to go on is some newspaper clippings. i might as well say paul bunyan was "GOAT".

but apparently we had this talk already.

having lewis train you, some wrestling rags hail you at the best ever, and shooting on karl gotch in what was supposed to be a worked fight (am i getting this right?) does not make you the best ever.

BUT, i can say the feelings i get from a lou thesz match are amazing and i love watching him work. don't get me wrong on this account.

who is it who always compared thesz to sakuraba in these sorts of threads when they come up?i suppose its their DWL application... is it you who says thaT?

A small world indeed my friend !

I totally understand your point, but thats also like saying 200 years from now Fedor wouldnt be the GOAT because nobody around will be alive then.

I also never compared the two. Saku was trained by Billy Robinson, and there DWL set up is identical.

Also Gotch broke Thesz's ribs because he shot on Thesz firt...or so I understand.

The Super Hyper Creep wrote:A small world indeed my friend !

I totally understand your point, but thats also like saying 200 years from now Fedor wouldnt be the GOAT because nobody around will be alive then.

I also never compared the two. Saku was trained by Billy Robinson, and there DWL set up is identical.

Also Gotch broke Thesz's ribs because he shot on Thesz firt...or so I understand.

People would have video to go along with the "newspaper" clippings.

The Super Hyper Creep wrote:A small world indeed my friend !

I totally understand your point, but thats also like saying 200 years from now Fedor wouldnt be the GOAT because nobody around will be alive then.

I also never compared the two. Saku was trained by Billy Robinson, and there DWL set up is identical.

Also Gotch broke Thesz's ribs because he shot on Thesz firt...or so I understand.

i think it was the kforcer guy maybe or ... i dunno somebody who used to always say saku was the modern day incarnation of thesz. i can kinda see it.

Donowaman wrote:

The Super Hyper Creep wrote:A small world indeed my friend !

I totally understand your point, but thats also like saying 200 years from now Fedor wouldnt be the GOAT because nobody around will be alive then.

I also never compared the two. Saku was trained by Billy Robinson, and there DWL set up is identical.

Also Gotch broke Thesz's ribs because he shot on Thesz firt...or so I understand.

People would have video to go along with the "newspaper" clippings.

yah right, i mean, itd be more like if in 200 years after some horrible apocalypse all that was left of martial arts history was sherdog's fight finder. and you had to base your opinion on how great someone was from their record alone or something. impossible!

Minowaman
/thread

Robotron wrote:

joaolaitano wrote:Im still picking Marcelinho.

Roger would be a fairer fight for karelin ..Garcia is a pretty small dude.

Well Roger would be outweighed by about 80-100 lbs of solid muscle. Karelin is 6'4" and competed at 285 lbs with about 0% body fat. Karelin would also arguably be the most athletic and 2nd strongest human that ever fought at hw-shw in MMA.

Roger is the man but this guy used to pick guys straight up the sized of Lesnar and Bigfoot and slam the fuck out of them breaking them in half. Stack 2 Kevin Randleman's tall and 2 Kevin Randleman's wide and then imagine the suplex onslaught that would occur in a match against Roger. I love Roger. I want him to keep on walking and to continue breathing. No matter whether it was Rickson or Roger or any body... go try some world-class BJJ on even only a small young bull. Roger meet immovable object angry object.