Rubber Guard.. your thoughts?

you are joking...right?

him grabbig his leg does not equal rubber guard. and those names are not important as it is what they accomplish = trapping your opponent using flexability.

sorry if that came off as a douchey response when you're trying to tell me something that isn't true, I oftentimes, react/reply as a douche.

loook at the time Eddie was a brown belt under JJ Machado, and was working on this "flexible" guard that came from the traditional high guard. he then began to utilize several moves that weren't very popular and making them his own. after beating Royler, JJ gave him his blackbelt at which point Eddie went on to work on his own system. and called it 10th planet, rubber guard being only on aspect of it.

but the problem with Eddie's system is that it takes a LOT of stuff that has always been around, calls it something else and attempts to sell it (or his affiliates do) as something it is not...

do what works best. just cause half the grapplers play half guard doesn't mean you should, I have mixed results in the half guard / deep half game and that's because I don't use it on the appropriate opponents. ie wrestlers with a great top game = half guard fail haha

all the best

Donowaman wrote:Aoki and Vinny Magalhaes are the only two I've seen use it decently in MMA. Imanari tries, but it ends up just being a boring stall position.

thats funny you say Vinny Magalhaes he trains the homie from time to time that i roll with and i cant front he gets that zombie position and its a bitch sometimes but more and more exposure to it makes it almost predictable and easier to escape from
my friends skill lvl is 2 years in regular traditional bjj and like a year or so of reading rubber guard books and watching tutorials on the system and using me as his grappling dummy

as for myself 2 solid years of rolling with him and decent enough defence to not get caught by something embarassing

Arthur knows his shit.

ArthurKnoqOut wrote:you are joking...right?

him grabbig his leg does not equal rubber guard. and those names are not important as it is what they accomplish = trapping your opponent using flexability.

sorry if that came off as a douchey response when you're trying to tell me something that isn't true, I oftentimes, react/reply as a douche.

loook at the time Eddie was a brown belt under JJ Machado, and was working on this "flexible" guard that came from the traditional high guard. he then began to utilize several moves that weren't very popular and making them his own. after beating Royler, JJ gave him his blackbelt at which point Eddie went on to work on his own system. and called it 10th planet, rubber guard being only on aspect of it.

but the problem with Eddie's system is that it takes a LOT of stuff that has always been around, calls it something else and attempts to sell it (or his affiliates do) as something it is not...

do what works best. just cause half the grapplers play half guard doesn't mean you should, I have mixed results in the half guard / deep half game and that's because I don't use it on the appropriate opponents. ie wrestlers with a great top game = half guard fail haha

all the best

ok, this is all well and good but none of it contradicts what ive said which is. in that photo and at various points in the match eddie uses rubber guard. you're giving a ton of excess irrelevant information, while appreciated im not trying to debate here. i have in fact stated much of what youve said previously in this thread. yes im aware of the problems of bravo's techniques and the annoying nature of his marketing campaign. BUT

youve not explain how that picture and that video from 330-350 are not rubber guard being applied??? again at 430 and by 440 he has it locked in a high guard that you keep referring to. high guard is when your legs are crossed. google image search rubber guard.

its the same as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de9uvQxSDQw 1:55, 4:25 whats the debate??? he had these positions on royler, which are as ive learned now from ths video are mission control and zombie apparently, but as i said im not hip to the bravo slang so forgive me if m not nailing all these silly terms.

dude....a white belt walks into BJJ, tries to go for the high guard, grabs his shin...is that rubber guard?

ArthurKnoqOut wrote:dude....a white belt walks into BJJ, tries to go for the high guard, grabs his shin...is that rubber guard?

thats partly my point, which is why i think ive been so confused by what your stance really is.

what constitutes rubber guard to you? something cannonized and passed down in a set of books/dvds? or just ... grabbing the shin? am i doing a rear naked choke if i just throw my arms around someone's neck? many things in grappling are intuitive/instinctual. but this is becoming a tagent now...

haha well normally if you don't know RNC or mata leao as I know it you will probably go for some form of an incorrect Gable grip variation. so to answer your question, it is whatever is canonized

if you bring in something new or intuitive as you've called it, it is not a "standard" BJJ technique and therefore cannot be considered a BJJ "move"

if that makes any sense

so there was no rubber guard until eddie bravo decided to call it rubber guard? and when eddie was grabbing his shin and using "zombie" and "mission control" on royler, it actually wasn't actually that because he hadn't cannonized it yet?

im sorry, were there no trees until we came up with the word?

no one was doing the whip up from the lockdown / calf slicer before Eddie came along. that's right

ArthurKnoqOut wrote:haha well normally if you don't know RNC or mata leao as I know it you will probably go for some form of an incorrect Gable grip variation. so to answer your question, it is whatever is canonized

if you bring in something new or intuitive as you've called it, it is not a "standard" BJJ technique and therefore cannot be considered a BJJ "move"

if that makes any sense

Pls go.

yeah way to prove my point guy

I think there's SOME interesting things in the rubber guard. But I don't see how it can be the focal point of your grappling style. I always viewed it as more technique in the arsenal. I really hope to roll with a high level tenth planet guy one day and some douche who learned it from submissions101.

ArthurKnoqOut wrote:yeah way to prove my point guy

There is more than one way to do the choke. Just because one style says one way is correct, it doesn't mean it's the only correct way.

Obviously, I am pretty sure I mentioned the gable grip which is not the standard Mata Leao as taught by the Brazilians but the fact is;

When I was 11, a few years prior to taking a boxing class, and I was street fighting even though I was throwing right hands and left hands doesn't mean I was all ready boxing

same way utilizing things that just weren't being used in BJJ in 2003 such as the high guard or a "zombie" or an s grip etc doesn't make it 10th planet jiu jitsu....

you also have to go to the history of BJJ specifically and see where the Mundials cames from (which ironically happened AFTER MMA became popular) since BJJ has always been for MMA first and foremost, even before MMA existed. and it was done with the gi.

If you watch Eddie's interviews you see that he only went off on his own and began to teach a nogi style because MMA was exploding and you can't use the gi in MMA any longer. AND if the limitation for the gi never happened, there would be Eddie Bravo nor 10th planet jiu jitsu and Eddie STILL would've have beaten Royler via triangle

"You guys dont know how jiu-jitsu works, it dosent belong to anybody it just.... evolves"

agree with that Joao.

furthermore I'd like to add that if you watch Erik Paulson's videos on "breaking down the rubber guard" he mentions the fact that a lot of this HIGH GUARD stuff has been around for decades.

I do like what Eddie did with the art and the sport and over the weekend I had a chance to roll with a 10th planet brown belt. and you'd be surprised how much scholastic/collegiate wrestling stuff is involved and of course they definitely know how to play the "regular" guard as well.

arthur you obscure the point with a lot of extraneous factoids. yes, indeed 10th planet draws a lot from american folkstyle wrestling... the twister and guillotine are the same.... so does that mean when a wrestler used a guillotine it wasn't a twister? or when a 10th planet bjj guy uses a twister it isn't a wrestler's guillotine? the same could be said for ude garami and kimura and DWL...

as has been stated in this thread you can't copyright moves. they don't belong to anyone. so when someone does a move/hold/position, whether or not it has a specific name and has been put into a gimmicky system, it is still that move. just as in royler and eddie's adcc match where eddie puts royler in positions that he later systematizes into 10th planet, those positions are still the same before and after he named them. i'm sorry i just don't see what is to be argued about this.

i train at a local relson gracie academy. relson, and probably most traditional gracie academies, rarely use names like spider guard, rubber guard, lockdown, de la riva, etc. in fact, i didn't learn what these were until years of training and someone told me what those names meant. we had just always called them "foot on the bicep guard" "shin behind the head guard" etc.

haha i think we've moved on from that semantics of it

Kid what do you think about namign such techniques though? Because Marcelo Garcia, for example, says that at one point when you begin to "understand Jiu jitsu" (something that Caio TErra once told me as well) names do NOT matter but "feeling the move" is all that counts.

Eddie is big on names because he says that it's "easier to teach"

what are your thoughts coming from a traditional BJJ school?

Yeah actualy the naming system is a good thing, If you guys ever had the chance to heard the brazilian naming system, its actualy prety poor we dont have names for most "moves", and the ones we have are actualy slangs that may change acording the region/gym.

I have a theory that it is to preserve the techniques, making it harder to learn from the theory point of view, thus acutualy learning is more about doing and feeling it than studying or just seeing it.

The only bad thing i have to say about 10th planet is the complete negation they have for the GI given them philosophy to rather fight from the back.

I think Eddie's initial idea about removing the gi was to make a BJJ system specifically for MMA for which I applaud him. However, as we see sooo many MMA fighters still train in the Gi, I think in some aspects Eddie has failed and has attracted the type of fans and supporters that wear TapouT...lol

I agree, just like I said, that it's way better to grasp the technique by feeling it than by learning the "theory" so to speak.

ArthurKnoqOut wrote:haha i think we've moved on from that semantics of it

Kid what do you think about namign such techniques though? Because Marcelo Garcia, for example, says that at one point when you begin to "understand Jiu jitsu" (something that Caio TErra once told me as well) names do NOT matter but "feeling the move" is all that counts.

Eddie is big on names because he says that it's "easier to teach"

what are your thoughts coming from a traditional BJJ school?

yah youre right, im beating a dead horse im sorry

i think the more compartmentalized your thoughts the more difficult it is to master jiu jitsu. and i think the more names you have the more compartmentalized everything is in your mind, especially as a beginner. i mean, a chimpanzee doesn't have to "learn how to fight" it just "feels how to fight" y'know? where weight should go, where to attack, when its unbalanced, it doesn't think in "moves". or positions even. it isn't thinking "i have to pass the guard" or even "i have to get arond my opponents legs".... this could be a debate about the downside of language as a whole however.

of course it's hard to sell a dvd set with that mentality. its easier to market things with catchy slogans/names.

the only thing i can see as an advantage to the whole "naming everything" is that in a tournament setting i suppose its nice to have your coach tell you what to do in a way your opponent doesn't understand. of course if you're fighting a brazilian it doesn't matter anyway....

haha I train with a lot of Russian kids so we have our own cues for certain things. they sound rather funny as well.

So what we've gathered in this thread is that Rubber Guard is for the homosex's.