Semmy Schilt accused of cheating

Nothing will come of this.

Copy and paste article please.

Bas Boon, what a cheater, and then he has the nerve to talk shit about M-1 and Fedor

Jride wrote:Copy and paste article please.

In a move that has the potential to greatly impact the 2010 K-1 Grand Prix, Hesdy Gerges's team has filed a formal complaint against Semmy Schilt stemming from their Final 16 match last weekend. Filed by Black Label Fighting and It's Showtime, the complaint argues that Schilt received illegal medical attention between rounds of the October 2 fight and calls for Schilt to be disqualified from the December 11 Grand Prix finals. Here is the official statement from It's Showtime and Black Label Fighting:

In the K-1 regulations is written that in case a fighter gets injured during the fight, the wound may not be treated by one of the cornermen without interference of the official physician and referee. However, this did happen right after the first round by [Schilt's manager] Bas Boon. Schilt, who received numerous lowkicks right from the beginning of the fight, didn't check one of those lowkicks very well so his right shinbone got torn open. If the referee had seen this right away, the doctor had to take a look at the wound and continuing the fight wouldn't have been medically responsible. The referee never discovered this wound, because Schilt's corner ‘secretly' applied a lot of tape on the wound.

The exact wording of the rule in question can be found in the official K-1 rules, Article 22.5 (emphasis mine):

Article 22: Protector
The use of protectors made of rubber, plastic, or other material is not allowed for any reason including the protection of an injury. However, when the official physician or the referee and judges allow the usage of protectors depending on the injuries, the following applies;
...
5. Only the official physician is authorized to tape the injured area, once the mach starts.

That is the point Gerges's team is arguing - that Schilt's corner applied tape between rounds 1 & 2, and that doing so is in violation of this rule.

Watching the video, you can not see the tape being applied, but Schilt does clearly come out for the 2nd round with tape on his leg that was not present when the match started. Assuming Gerges's team is correct and this tape was indeed applied by Schilt's corner without the official physician, it seems there is little question here - Schilt is in violation of the rule and the complaint is valid.

The trouble though is deciding what to do about that complaint. Again, from Article 22 of the K-1 rules:

Caution, warning or point reduction may be given if a fighter does not follow the instruction of the judges.

Nowhere does it mention the possibility of a disqualification, however there are two key points to consider. First, did the taping allow Schilt to continue despite an injury that should have stopped the fight? Second, should Schilt have been deducted a point? As it stands right now, Schilt won via split decision - a point deduction would change that to a draw, forcing an extension round.

Here is It's Showtime president Simon Rutz on the situation:

Because Hesdy Gerges is our reigning IT'S SHOWTIME world champion, K-1 really wanted to match him with their own world champion. K-1 created a huge buzz in the Japanese media and hyped the question: ‘Who is the stronger one, the IT'S SHOWTIME world champion or the K-1 world champion?' After 2 rounds the judges scored the fight 20-20 (draw), 19-20 (for Sem) and 18-20 (for Sem). However, like everyone could see, the third round was clearly for Hesdy Gerges so that round should have been scored 10-9, 10-9, 10-9 for Hesdy Gerges. If you add that score to the scores after round 2 you will get the following end result: 30-29 (for Hesdy), 29-29 (draw) and 28-29 (for Sem). A more clear example for an extra round can't be found! If there would have been an extra round, Sem would never have been able to finish this round, because he already had difficulties finishing the third round. This decision was already unjustified, but on top of that it's clear to see that Sem Schilt's corner has violated the rules by applying a thick layer of tape on Sem's deep wound.

And here is where the trouble comes in, as now this all becomes an elaborate game of "what if?". If Schilt had been deducted a point, there would have been an extension round. Rutz argues that Schilt would clearly have lost that round, but that's obviously speculation, not fact. You also have to ask how a point deduction would have impacted Semmy's performance. A highly cerebral fighter, Schilt likely would have fought a different 3rd round if he did not know he was ahead.

Finally, this is all complicated by the fact that this was a tournament fight, not a stand alone super fight. As a result, you can't call it a No Contest and walk away - someone has to move on to the finals, and this complaint argues that someone should be Hesdy Gerges.

Schilt had this to say (translated):

It's their right to protest, but I'm not afraid of the outcome. Hesdy would undoubtedly prefer to win in the ring, then afterwards you should not get bogged down in a form error. I then continue to train so I can pop in the final.

Personally, I think what we're seeing here is undeniably a violation of the rules, and even though the officials did not catch it at the time, there should be some form of penalty. But I'm not sure I can get behind removing Schilt from the GP as that penalty. I also don't think Rutz's comments will help here, as he makes a very legitimate complaint sound a lot like sour grapes by bringing up the scoring. If the protest is in regards to the taping, then why say "This decision was already unjustified"? It starts to come across as complaining about the entire fight, which undermines the valid taping complaint.

Regardless of your take on it, by filing a formal complaint, Gerges's team has made this an issue K-1 must address, and soon. We'll keep you posted on any updates.

Doesn't really seem like a big deal. Were they going to stop a fight for a cut on someones shin?

lolz

Donowaman wrote:Doesn't really seem like a big deal. Were they going to stop a fight for a cut on someones shin?

I know right. As if Muay Thai doesn't use Shins at all, hell kickboxing does to.

Eh. Hopefully K-1 doesn't use this as an excuse to overpunish Schilt. Personally this seems like less of outright cheating and more so gamesmanship than anything.

CharlesMC206 wrote:Eh. Hopefully K-1 doesn't use this as an excuse to overpunish Schilt. Personally this seems like less of outright cheating and more so gamesmanship than anything.

Another thing to consider is that maybe of his corner men or enterage asked an official for permission and that act was missed by the opposing corner. Even if he did break the rules intentionally its not that huge of infraction. Its not like they gave him a shot of adrenaline and pain killers. They gave him some first aid. If they asked for permission they would have gotten it.

veprman wrote:

CharlesMC206 wrote:Eh. Hopefully K-1 doesn't use this as an excuse to overpunish Schilt. Personally this seems like less of outright cheating and more so gamesmanship than anything.

Another thing to consider is that maybe of his corner men or enterage asked an official for permission and that act was missed by the opposing corner. Even if he did break the rules intentionally its not that huge of infraction. Its not like they gave him a shot of adrenaline and pain killers. They gave him some first aid. If they asked for permission they would have gotten it.

That's the bit that's important. I understand why they want a doctor there during administration of aid. I understand why that's in the rules. At the same time... come on. I mean... come. on. It's a cut on a leg. They're not going to DQ the guy because he got his leg taped. Gerges knows this. His people know this. I'm not even sure why they're bringing this up. All it does is make them look like bitches, really.

Let's recast this article by phrasing the intent in a different manner. Thus: "If Semmy hadn't taped his leg I would have won."

Well no motherfucker... you wouldn't have. The doctor would have taped the damn thing and the outcome would be the same.

Moot point. Next thread.

Pretty much barlow. K-1 doesn't hate Semmy that much. No way they would have stopped it.

Donowaman wrote:Doesn't really seem like a big deal. Were they going to stop a fight for a cut on someones shin?

they do dono...havent u seen that ray sefo fight where his shin gets split and they have to stop the fight

blueyedsamurai wrote:

Donowaman wrote:Doesn't really seem like a big deal. Were they going to stop a fight for a cut on someones shin?

they do dono...havent u seen that ray sefo fight where his shin gets split and they have to stop the fight

Didn't he get his foot broken by kickin Badrs knee?

Frank wrote:

blueyedsamurai wrote:

Donowaman wrote:Doesn't really seem like a big deal. Were they going to stop a fight for a cut on someones shin?

they do dono...havent u seen that ray sefo fight where his shin gets split and they have to stop the fight

Didn't he get his foot broken by kickin Badrs knee?

he lost tko stoppage against Matt Skelton because his shin was split open

Semmy needs to be DQed imo.

Bas Boon's reply
http://www.headkicklegend.com/2010/10/10/1742364/golden-glorys-bas-boon-replies-to-simon-rutzs-allegations-against

The protest comes from a frustrated Simon Rutz who does not control his "star" fighter Badr Hari. Round one and two were for Semmy and round three for Hesdy, so the result 2-1 is correct.

As for the protest, I hope for Hesdy that the unprofessional behavior of his management will not lead to not using Hesdy in a superfight or reserve fight on December 11th. All fighters and coach/managers must sign a form at the rule meeting and can not discredit K-1 (Simon likes to speak about the rules, well… this is also a rule). Simon Rutz has all the right to protest how much he wants, but he should first wait for the result which takes two or three weeks according to K-1 rules.

What is really surprising is that a Dutch newspaper "the telegraph" printed this story on the front page – stating there is e a big chance of Semmy being disqualified? This is speculation, as K-1 never spoke to any media about any protest or result (confirmed by mail) and these lies came by a press conference from Simon. I contacted K-1 and they never talked to any media about this. This was orchestrated by Simon Rutz, who is a promoter himself and has his own agenda. They called the action of Bas Boon sneaky?

If Rutz would have read the K-1 rules, he could have seen that the worst penalty they could have given me for taping Semmy after the first round would be a caution, warning or finally a point deduction or yellow card. However, I did use tape from the organization and an official was present who ask me to stop taping when the second round started, so there is nothing sneaky about that – as Simon claimed in the Dutch telegraph newspaper.

It also proved that we could enjoy another two great rounds and that medical interference was never necessary.

Disqualification is mentioned in the K-1 rules if I would have entered the ring during the fight, which did not happen.

It’s a last attempt of desperate management (if you can call it a management) who sees their "star" fighters not performing or even not see them at all… not to mention how unprofessional this behavior is.

Kharitonov performed very well in only his second K-1 fight and Saki and Alistair did great. Semmy had a hard fight, but deserved the win.

/\ Shit just got real.